Windows Refund day
The page now has the higher quality jpegs, and two versions of
the videos of what was shown on TV
For those who hadn't heard the story, February 15th 1999 was
windows refund day.
The link above will give you more info but in a nutshell, it was a worldwide
day when open source OS users went to microsoft's offices to return their unused
licenses of windows that they were forced to acquire since they were bundled
with the machine they bought.
The windows EULA (End User License Agreement) clearly states that the agreement
can be refused by the end user, and that windows can be returned to the
manufacturer. In real life, however, manufacturers typically say that they can't
refund the windows license and tell the user to contact microsoft directly. I
can't say I really blame manufacturers for doing that because:
- I don't have proof for this (only a few top executives would), but I'm
convinced that manufacturers would lose the money they would reimburse because
microsoft would not pay them back.
- They wouldn't be allowed to re-use the license on another machine
- Microsoft would impose a different OEM pricing on them if they decided to
ship non ms OSes, or if they shipped machines without an OS (did you notice that
typically, the only place that will sell you an OS free machine is a little
shop, because they pay retail price for windows licenses anyway, so ms can't put
any pressure on them).
- If they were to refund windows, this would reveal their (secret) OEM pricing
agreement with ms and I'm not quite sure manufacturers, as well as microsoft,
wants people to have that information.
Anyway, a few people from SVLUG, including
Don Marti, Rick Moen (yes he was
there), Chris DiBona,
the world famous Nick Moffitt, and Tabinda Khan, organized the Bay Area windows
Since at the Linux tea party, microsoft showed up at
our meeting point to try to deter us from going to their offices in Palo Alto,
this time, the ultimate meeting point was kept secret, and 4 officers revealed
it at the last minute to the crowd that had gathered, as planned, at the four
meeting points around the Bay Area.
Where do we go, when we don't know were to meet? Denny's!
So, the final gathering point was in front of a Denny's in Foster City, about
a mile away from the microsoft office.
Some of the press was there and filmed/interviewed us, while we were preparing
Then, we rehearsed, and made sure the signs worked
Some even came up with nice NQPC (not quite politically correct) signs
on the left, can take all the credit for this one.
If you don't understand, it's because you don't watch
(Fred Boak (email@example.com) later reported that it actually comes from
You've heard about computer wearables, but there's no reason why you
can't have penguin wearables. I need to thank Mark Bolzern from
Linuxmall, for the penguins I had,
since those were a gift from him. You can buy your own
Yeah, I'm sure my Mom is real proud of having as a son a nutcase who wears
Also, V.A. Research was generous again,
and made special T-Shirts for the event. Once again, thank you very much V.A.
"We didn't want your operating system, this is what we want"
(please, next time make it a little narrower, so that it fits on my scanner)
Going to the microsoft office
So, once we were all there, and ready, we left for the ms office, and were
occasionally cheered at by passing drivers who would honk at us.
When we got closer to the MS building, we saw on the top of the parking lot that
many people were waiting for us, including a lot of reporters, from several
magasines, and at least 4 TV stations.
At the microsoft office
They had signs saying "linux press conference" or "linux event", which led
us to the top of that parking lot, and there were a few microsoft
representatives, along with the reporters.
They tried to pull that "welcome" thing, just like at the
Linux tea party, but this time we weren't ready to
play along. We weren't there to make fun of them, we were there for business.
Sorry, but this time, a nice sign and a few drinks won't be enough
For reference, also, even though a majority of the crowd were linux users,
it was in no way a linux only event. Other alternative OS users joined us,
including FreeBSD users, and I'm told a couple of SCO users. However, I don't
really blame people for mistaking this with a linux only event, as it was
mostly announced as such.
We had a lot people to talk to the MS folks, including Oby One
Kenoby^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H ESR (Eric Raymond, the
guy who wrote the
Cathedral and the Bazaar, and who released the
And all the reporters were here:
Basically, the ms folks told us the press and us that the EULA explicitly says
that we should talk to the PC manufacturer. They also issued a written
(you may want to read it in order to understand what's below)
This is obviously rather lame since as far as I know manufacturers are coerced
into fulfilling this agreement and yet wouldn't be refunded by microsoft if they
refunded a customer. Can anyone tell me how different it is from the per CPU
licensing they used to have before they were
restrained by the
department of justice in 1995?
As for the official statement:
- Someone needs to tell them that I'm not their freaking "valued
- I do have to admit that they're good when they say that we have a choice
of OS. Unless you go through extraordinary efforts, or build your PC yourself
(can anyone say "laptop" ?), it's still difficult to get a PC without windows
nowadays (almost impossible for name brands), and they very well know it.
- "At the request of the PC makers that license Windows for resale,
Microsoft must direct you to the PC maker from which you purchased your copy of
Windows." Oh yeah, this is a really good one. If this isn't definite proof
that they are lying through their teeth, I don't know what else you need... I
suppose I am to believe that PC manufacturers were the ones to ask for that
clause saying that they'd reimburse windows if the customer didn't want it...
(thanks to Arne Knut Roev for pointing that out).
- More than 200,000 PC makers worldwide are supposed to let me choose which OS
I want, if any? Jeez, where have I been shopping then?
- In the bit about quoting linux.org, the specific page they refer to is most
this one. While it is a
nice move from them, let's be serious: if it were that easy to buy a PC without
windows, we wouldn't have to make a list...
- "We hope that you, like millions of other customers around the world
have done, choose Microsoft operating system products to run your PC and enhance
your computing experience". Maybe it's just because I'm French, but I have
a different understanding of the word "enhance" than they seem to have.
Arne Knut Roev (firstname.lastname@example.org) also wrote
a few words about
the ms response.
After speaking to the journalists for a while, we decided that ms had stalled
us long enough, and that it was time to go inside to their offices. To make a
long story short, all we found were closed doors, and an elevator that had been
reprogrammed not to go to the 9th floor (where their office is). People did try
to go to the 10th floor and take the stairs, but those stairs had doors that
wouldn't open from the stairs' side.
Can anyone say "cowards"?
You can press the 9th floor button, but it won't go anywhere...
(picture courtesy of John Beale)
On the TV news, I saw an ms lady saying that people were working and that we
couldn't disturb the office, but that's BS because we only send a very small
group of people who had licences to return, exactly because we didn't want to
cause trouble and disturb the other companies in the same office.
While a few were still trying to get in, the rest of us stayed outside.
and eventually left...
...for the CoffeeNet, were Rick Moen (there is no Rick Moen)
doesn't live since he doesn't exist.
(don't be overly concerned if you don't understand
I'll fill those as I get them.
In the past, a couple of SVLUG members had been on TV for a minute or so to talk
about linux. This time however, it was much better than anything else
we'd done so far.
We ended up on all four newscasts that were on TV that evening. I have encoded
those and made high bitrate MPEGs of them. They're nice, but since they're a
bit big, I'll try to encode them again with a lower bitrate this time.
I'd like to say that for once, I've been positively impressed by those
journalists. I'd say they all did a pretty decent job, and didn't make any
blunders, or say something completely incorrect (not like it hasn't happened
before). Yes, it'd have been nice if they had emphasised a little more on the
fact that microsoft wrote an agreement that they manage not to respect, but that
would be taking sides, and it's not their job.
- The ABC Video
They had a segment that lasted about 2:30mn. They showed the bald ms guy
saying that our event was only about PR, and that we should see the
manufacturers for refunds. Then they did show the counterpoint of us saying
that manufacturers won't refund us and that they tell us to talk to
They compared the day to some independence day that happened all over the
country, and they also mentioned that microsoft refused us entrance to
The really cool thing is that they explained briefly what linux was, and
showed a demo of a V.A. computer running linux and the KDE desktop (probably
because pretty much like windows).
- The CBS Video
Their segment lasted about one minute, and showed us preparing our banners,
and they also showed microsoft's "welcome sign" for us. Like the others,
they showed both sides of the story with regard to the refund issue.
- The NBC Video
Their segment, which lasted about 2:30mn, did mention that we did a
"small orderly protest", and mentioned the issue of with the elevators
that did prevent us from going to the microsoft office.
The funny thing is that you can distinctively see the "I didn't ask for the
Anal Probe" sign
They also nicely spent a little time mentioning what linux was, and
explaining that it was a free operating system created by Linus Torvalds.
- The FOX Video
FOX was last (the page used to say UPN, this was an error), around 22:30,
and only showed 30 seconds or so, but like all
the others, mentioned the license issue. They did however say, I quote,
"they prefer something called linux". You can tell the news anchor wasn't
quite sure what she was talking about...
- CNN Headline News, as reported by a few people. Mark Mealman
(email@example.com) says: "They did a mention of it during their biz
segment, comparing it to a march on Washington by users seeking a refund
for their unused copies of Windows. They also said that the majority of the
marchers were users of the Linux operating system." If anyone taped it,
please let me know.
I honestly never expected microsoft to pull out a check book, and start writing
checks because it would not only set a bad precedent for them (many others would
start asking for refunds), but also because it wouldn't have been practical for
them to do so. As I mentioned earlier, each OEM gets a different pricing, so
they would have had to make different checks to different people, and reveal
their secret pricing agreements.
Yet, I'd have been more than happy for them to prove me wrong... Anyway, I came
because the ultimate goal was to draw attention to the problem in the hopes
that it would get fixed eventually (i.e. that manufacturers would truely refund
people who ask, or better, that OEMs could really bundle any OS they wanted (or
no OS at all), without being penalised by microsoft).
This time was really different from the
Linux tea party, when they not only didn't lose face,
but handled the matter very well.
This time, we clearly came out ahead. They were the ones who had to hide in
their building and lock the doors, and the PR we're getting from this event
is really great. I just hope it will help move things in the right direction.
Thanks all those who came, thank you for all having been orderly and for having
behaved professionally, and see you all next time.
(this was all written late, so please feel free to point out spelhing mistakes
and factual errors if there are any, I'll update the page quickly. I also gladly
welcome additions to the page, especially links to newspaper articles and/or
scans of those).
(just to make sure since I got a few Emails about it, yes, I know how to spelh
"spell", that one was a joke )
Link to Home Page
99/02/16 (05:00): Version 1.0
99/02/16 (11:58): Version 1.1. Added remark on the letter, pointed out by Arne
Knut Roev (firstname.lastname@example.org). Yuan Chiao (email@example.com) gave me a link
to the SJ Mercury article. Mark Mealman (firstname.lastname@example.org) and David
Bubar (email@example.com) mentioned a segment on CNN Headline news. Taniwha
(firstname.lastname@example.org) corrected my mistake about the UPN newscast, it was of
course FOX (UPN doesn't have evening news here). Herbert Gangl
(email@example.com) was nice enough to correct several spelling mistakes
99/02/16 (12:20): Version 1.2. Added msnbc link
99/02/16 (12:47): Version 1.3. Added other news links from Slashdot
99/02/16 (15:34): Version 1.4. The Anal probe quote comes from the movie passion
fish. Thanks to Fred Boak (firstname.lastname@example.org) for the report. Thanks also to
Benjamin Weste Pearre (email@example.com) and Fred Henle
(firstname.lastname@example.org) for pointing out that I messed up while reading one of
the ms quotes
99/02/16 (15:44): Version 1.5. Reworked the answer to ms's letter
99/02/17 (00:30): Version 1.6. New, rescanned jpegs of the pictures
99/02/17 (13:50): Version 1.7. First version of the videos (high bit rate)
99/02/17 (14:48): Version 1.8. Added link to linuxworld article
99/02/17 (15:40): Version 1.9. Added link to SD Union tribune article (thanks to
Michael Marion (email@example.com) for the link)
99/02/17 (17:20): Version 1.10. Added link to BBC news article
99/02/18 (12:36): Version 1.11. Added links to two new news sites (courtesy of
Hubert Figuiere (Hubert.Figuiere@solsoft.fr))
99/02/18 (16:14): Version 1.12. Added new videos
99/02/18 (22:26): Version 1.13. Added Mercury Center link (courtesy of Steve (firstname.lastname@example.org))
99/02/18 (22:33): Version 1.14. Added link to Arne Knut Roev's (email@example.com) page
99/03/11 (23:15): Version 1.15. Added link zdnet article
99/12/06 (00:32): Version 1.16. Removed 4 broken news links